Blogged Elsewhere: Sovereign Grand Master and the separation of civil and religious

As part of his address to the assembled 1,000 members of the Royal Black Institution at Plumbridge, West Tyrone, the Sovereign Grand Master Millar Farr seems to get into a confusion about civil law and religious law. He said:

"In God’s law there is no provision for same-sex marriage. Holy scripture is quite clear on the subject – marriage is between male and female only.

"While man-made laws can be changed, God’s law is unchangeable. How politicians can imagine they have the right to create legislation which is contrary to holy scripture is beyond belief."

Of course this is not the first time that Millar Farr has used his speaking opportunities in this way.

Now let us look at this in detail....

you can read the rest on LGBT+ Liberal Democrats Northern Ireland.

DUP fail on equality part 2731

Liam Clarke of the Belfast Telegraph yesterday did a follow up editorial on the Magherafelt Council unionists stance and words used during the gay marriage debate. It was of course time for another unionist politician to use a phrase that shows how out of touch they are not just with reality and their electorate but modern day law.

Councillor Paul McLean the chair of the DUP group on the council when asked to clarify his party's use of biblical tracts and language in the debate said:

"We are now under the laws of today.

"I believe it should be against the law and dealt with by proper process. I believe it is wrong. I was relating a very clear biblical teaching."

The DUP had said earlier in the week that they were allowing biblical verse to be used by its members to back up their position on equal marriage. This however goes further.

The Councillor appears to want homosexuality to be treated with the proper process as laid down in biblical teaching. I'm just wondering if he will carry out the same proper process as laid down in very clear biblical teaching when he is next invited to the house of his leader and his adulterous wife? Or does his clear biblical teaching and proper process not go there?

If he is really advocating stoning to death of homosexuals surely he is going to bring back stoning of adulterers and adulteresses too, both in the same chapter only 3 verses apart.

Clarke is seeking clarity as to want is meant from the party leader, Peter Robinson, himself. In light of the above that could be an interesting response.

Now of course the DUP have signed up to the Belfast Agreement which enshrines equality for LGBT member of the Northern Irish community, therefore any step to go back to 1982 before the Dudgeon case was heard before the European Court would be contrary to that. So a return to the dark ages would have to see the DUP give up power at Stormont as they would be not in full agreement with the agreement that gives them ministerial positions.

Who is ultimate victim of rape?

There has been a lot of talk about rape in the past week. Whether it be about Julian Assange or Todd Akin, but we've had another case right here in Northern Ireland.

When I was working for the Yes! campaign in Northern Ireland I had to walk past The Family Planning Association on the way to get my lunch. Quite often there were pickets outside. Because unlike anywhere else in the UK abortion is still illegal in Northern Ireland.

It does not of course prevent Northern Irish women seeking abortions, indeed over 1000 traveled to seek one last year alone, they merely have the additional trauma have having to travel to England, Scotland or Wales. But today their anguish wasn't helped by the next Health Minster the DUP MLA Jim Wells.

Speaking on the Nolan Show he said that the ultimate victim of rape is the unborn child. Adding:

"Should he or she be punished for what has happened by having their life terminated? No.

"In Northern Ireland, there are hundreds of married couples who would love to adopt children - a child, a baby - and who could give support in that situation."

Now there isn't just one victim of any rape. Indeed in the last year in Northern Ireland there were 525 cases reported. This figure is actually higher than the number reported in the Republic of Ireland which has three times the population!

So what about the mental well being of all those 525 victims?

Not all of those 525 will want to face a nine month reminder of the horrid crime carried out against their person. Suffering through morning sickness, the back pain, the increase in girth (not to mention having to buy maternity clothes). That is to say nothing of the additional mental anguish both during and after pregnancy of having gone through being forced to carry the child full term.

Who is the ultimate victim of Northern Ireland not allowing abortion, even in such conditions?

Of course to get across to England, Scotland or Wales, these women are using savings theirs or their families, digging into pension funds or going to loan sharks to afford the additional expense of getting a ferry or flight and accommodation to cover them meeting with the two doctors, both strangers to the woman, to get the approval to abort.

Now of course earlier this week i pointed out that the DUP used biblical verses to attack gay marriage. Someone even tried to tell me that while the civil and ceremonial laws were outlawed the moral ones were to be upheld. Therefore I'm not quite sure why Jim Wells wasn't quoting the following biblical verses to defend his position, the DUP after all have cleared their members to do so.

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. 

Deut 22: 28-29 New Living Translation

  If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

Deut 22: 23-24 NLT 

So why stop at merely letting the women who has suffered at the hands of the rapist go full term and give the child up for adoption, surely the DUP should be marrying her off as this is a tradition form of biblical marriage? One goes on to wonder how any DUP politician would deal with a daughter who found herself pregnant as the victim of rape?

But of course they realise how ridiculous it is to call for that. So instead they merely add to the trauma of removing something that is causing the victim, and let us not forget the woman is a victim of a crime, undo anguish. Any other crime once the police come and take pictures of the evidence the results can be cleared away and people get on with their life, but for rape the DUP are prepared to let women live with the results, that have crashed into their lives unwarranted, for nine months.


Earlier today I did post this from the Huffington Post about how the pro-lifers are so much only looking at the rarer commodity for human reproduction. Of course going again the biblical precedent Onanism as masturbation is also called was because Onon in Genesis 38 while having sex with his dead brother's wife pulled out during sex and prevented her giving her dead husband the heir that was required from his younger brother's seed. God himself put him to death.

Selective Homophobic Theology

A man in the states has just had another tattoo added to his collection. It's one he is proudly showing off on ABC news in repsonse to a hate crime against a gay man.

I think that may be the amount of ink on his arms had made it impossible for him to turn the page to Leviticus 19 and verse 28 where he will find:

'You shall not make any cuts in your body for the dead nor make any tattoo marks on yourselves: I am the LORD.' New American Standard Bible

It just shows how taking a word from the bible in isolation can really show up the hypocrisy of narrow mindedness. When Christ was asked what is the greatest commandment he said it was 'Love'. That is all encompassing, that is something that is sometimes lacking in churches that look down on, or exclude in part or in full people from their congregations die to their sexual orientations. Where are such churches without love, they are nothing except an noisy gong or a clashing cymbal.

Hat tip to Gill Troughton via my cousin Rachel

Homophobe Needs to Learn to Read the Bible Properly

There is something that often irritates about some of the so called 'Christian' extremists who preach things like kill the gays and brandish the word abomination around while enjoying their prawn in their polyester/cotton mix clothing.

However, today's 'learn to read the bible' award goes not to an American but Russia's first legal billionaire German Sterligov. He said that he wanted all gay men and women killed when he was interviewed at the weekend on the popular Moscow radio station Echo Moskvi.

When challenged by the host Ksenia Larina:

"I want to understand, German, what what you want to do … what to do not only with atheists but also with gays and lesbians?"

Mr. Sterligov responded:

"As it is written by the Apostle Paul, Let it be their blood upon their heads."

Other guests on the programme chipped in. One asked:

"This is what is written about gays and lesbians?"

"Yes," replied Mr. Sterligov. "This is what is written about the homosexuals."

Now for some facts, yes it is written in the bible,"Let it be their blood upon their heads" you can find Paul saying it in Acts 18:6. However, here is where Mr Sterligov falls down, you cannot take a sentence in the bible out of its context to make it say what you mean.

The context of this passage is Paul visiting the synagogue in Corinth. He was testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Christ. However, they resisted and blasphemed. So Paul shook his clothes (ie getting the residue of them off him) and said:

"Your blood be upon your own head! I am clean. From now on I shall go the Gentiles."

So instead of it being about homosexual is actually about some of God's chosen people, the children of Israel rejecting the message that Paul was giving to them. It has nothing to do about sexuality and all to do about rejecting the message. Seeing as you who I would expect to accept the message have rejected I'm going to those that you think don't deserve to hear it.

Harsh words and equally applicable to Mr Sterligov. You say that some people deserve to die for who they are. As I've mentioned before people like Mr Sterligov are very particular about which of their priestly laws from Leviticus they want to uphold and which it is ok to ignore in this day and age. Generally if applies to sleeping with man as with woman and includes death keep, if it involves sea food, or slavery or clothing we can ignore that now.

End result of course is a total image of hate, when actually Paul would have been turning his back on that hate and taking his message to those that Mr Sterligov has shown such hatred to. Sadly a recent poll of Russian opinions shows that Mr Sterligov is in a majority. 74 per cent of Russians believe gays and lesbians are morally dissolute or mentally defective, while only 15 per cent think they are normal.

There is still a long way to go in certain parts of the world. But if you are going to have an argument based on biblical references at least use the passages that relate rather that totally twisted, that is debate rather than diatribe.